Protocolly Atmoseed

Alex Garnett: Protocol, protocol, off that protocol. I’m gone off that protocol. Jim, love the new music. Wow.

Jim Ray: And so.

Alex Garnett: their awards we made the very quickly. Yeah.

Jim Ray: amazing. Thank you so much, Alex, for adding the awards. You know, we’re trying to kind of up the production value here just a little bit. We’re serious about our live streams and our various other streams, so that’s.

Alex Garnett: a good idea. I know, I’m really bummed. I was practicing my Kash Patel stare, and now I have nothing to improve myself. Using a member of the administration for visual reference.

Jim Ray: Nice. Well you know that might just be a blessing in disguise. So.

Alex Garnett: it might be.

Jim Ray: But I think we should start as we do every week on the live stream here with because this is the app for sports, the World Cup is over. How did we feel about that final match?

Alex Garnett: You know what? I think that Europe is finally ready for baseball. And let me tell you why. Because if they can watch an agonizing three hours in which nothing happens Penalties are called, officials are penalized, by the end of it, you’re like, God, just wrap this up soon, please. Like I think the continent is ripe. So we are gonna take baseball back to them on the basis of that Spain-Argentina match.

Jim Ray: It did feel very much like a baseball-ish kind of event, probably something that was much more exciting. I don’t watch a lot of baseball on the TV, but I do love going to a baseball game. I imagine it was pretty exciting to be there. in beautiful northern New Jersey.

Alex Garnett: That’s right. I think like the laboriousness of trying to rig the game for Messi coupled with the slight speed up from the pitch clock has brought the two sports perfectly in sync. Now look at this. Innovations, we’re all we’re bringing the world closer together. We just don’t know it yet.

Jim Ray: And I don’t know if you watched the third place match, but that that honestly felt like the more exciting of the two from this past weekend. Up 4-0 at halftime and then a big comeback and ultimately poor France couldn’t quite pull it together.

Alex Garnett: Well, I did spot England four goals just to be nice as far as I can tell. They just wanted to see if they could make it interesting. And, you know, once again, this teaches us the moral advantage of just watching France. Watch France, they’re more entertaining. Yeah, they give you something to watch.

Jim Ray: Yeah, there you go.

Alex Garnett: Like what more can you ask for?

Jim Ray: There you go. And speaking of baseball, your I have to think of your Mets beat the terrible Milwaukee Brewers last night and my cubbies beat the Detroit Tigers, which means that we moved up an entire slot there in the in the runnings. I’m a little nervous because the Cubbies are second place in their division, and that is not a place I feel like the Cubs should ever be.

Alex Garnett: It’s like having a three-one lead in the hockey, you know, it’s the worst you can possibly have because you’re about to give that lead away. What I will say is the Mets continue to be absolutely god-awful. Just terrible. They are like the fifth worst record in the league. Somehow better than the Giants, which gives me some satisfaction. Two of the prettiest ballparks and worst teams.

Jim Ray: As I mentioned already, I do love being in a in a ballpark even if my team’s not necessarily winning, which is why it’s nice to be a Cubs fan because there’s never a bad day at Wrigley.

Alex Garnett: No, it’s true. I’ve been to like Japanese baseball games where they all have a nice different chance every time a different player goes up to bat, they’re like, yeah, let’s go Kanichiro. Whereas like with the Mets we just make up different things to be mad about because we’re always losing. And it’s not really like customized per player. It’s like per era of the team being bad you know, we’re just gonna think about like being bad in the nineties or being bad in the two thousands. You know, there’s so much to draw on.

Jim Ray: Well, I think we’ve tortured the crew long enough. Kuba is pointing out that maybe we don’t have as many people as we might expect. I think everyone is skipping the first five minutes because they know that we’re gonna torture them with terrible sports stuff. So let’s get into it. We’ll just do another news rundown, I think, this week we’ve got some exciting stuff coming up, I think the next live stream should be a pretty exciting one. We kind of previewed some of the work that we’ve got coming up. But so we’ll just kind of run through our news and then if folks have questions, they can they can definitely jump into the chat there but the first thing, this is some stuff we’ll be working on this week, but you wrote up and then our own Matthieu was kind of promoting a little bit this idea of fixing local hosts within the within the local app, you know, if you’re if you’re doing local development.

This is a long-standing request and is not necessarily a Bluesky bug, but it’s actually how OAuth works, right?

Alex Garnett: Yeah, and I can’t take too much credit for this. Most of the write-up came from Dan Abramov originally opening a PR on the spot, but then closing it because he didn’t want to see it through with Claude then and there.

Jim Ray: But yeah.

Alex Garnett: It’s something a lot of people continue to want. It’s one of those things that I think we did in the first place because we like being spec driven and it would not have been strictly the right way to do OAuth the spec if we let localhost always resolve to 127.0.0.1 in this case, but it seems like one of those things everybody wants and that there’s probably reason enough to do it. I’m not hearing a lot of counter-arguments. And so it’s nice to open proposals. I feel like while Bryan is on sabbatical, we have not been opening as many proposals because he’s always used GitHub discussions really well to that effect over the last several years, and I want to make sure that’s something that we’re still doing this to me is a pretty good use of that because it is something that is technically spec level, though it’s mostly just a very minor paper cut that no one feels strongly enough about.

to not do. Hopefully we’ll keep this open for a week or so. People can have a chance to add feedback. And if no one objects, we’ll try to get it in there.

Jim Ray: Kuba was just pointing out that even within the same blog post, you may not have folks saying it needs to be 127, not localhost, or it needs to be localhost, not 127. So I did drop a link there to the to the discussion thread that you were just highlighting. So definitely drop in if you have thoughts or questions. And a couple of orthogonal requests I know showed up in response to Matthieu boosting that on Maine today, particularly around things like caching and stuff like that. So hopefully we’ll be able to kind of pull some of those things together. Speaking of Dan Abramov, he, our biggest fan and promoter, and I’ll just say it, he makes our job a lot easier.

Lots of love for Dan a. He’s been kind of making the rounds on the podcast circuit. I know I’ve seen at least one popped up randomly on my YouTube feed, which is usually just carpentry. And but he was on the Shop Talk podcast, which I started listening to on my way home from dropping my son off at camp this morning. Haven’t made it all the way through. One thing that that kind of struck me, I don’t know if you’ve had a chance to listen to that one yet or folks on the feed half, but one thing that struck me about listening to Dan’s journey into atproto. Dan, I think most folks know this, but Dan was kind of early on the team.

He was one of the one of the first hires when they were kind of building out the app. Dan, of course, comes from React Ecosystem. And he mentioned something that I that resonated very strongly with me, which was he knew Bluesky, the kind of alternative social network. He knew that there was some kind of open source thing going on behind the scenes. He didn’t really care about any of that. He just kind of wanted to work on the app and then he shows up and starts working on it and got really into it. Obviously, Dan is beyond atproto-pilled. He’s, you know, our John the Baptist of the protocol. I feel like that resonated really strongly with me.

I was very similar, you know, I was looking for an alternative social network. I was doing some stuff on Mastodon. Was kind of going down the road of understanding Activity Pub a little bit more and then Bluesky opened up. I think I was part of that the post invitation early into the app wave of folks and very similarly I was like oh yeah it’s a decentralized thing and it wasn’t until I don’t know, probably last February or so that I started like really understanding what some of the key differences were. And I feel like that’s pretty common. Is that is that your story as well, Alex?

Alex Garnett: That’s pretty much my story to the letter. Like many people, like I was initially drawn to Bluesky qua Bluesky because I liked what Twitter was five and ten years ago. And I am naturally sympathetic to open source and to local first type use cases. I was vaguely aware that Bluesky was also invested in that direction, but I could not have articulated it before I started paying closer attention to the atmosphere later on last year. And it is really nice to get this conversation out in the ether. Something that we care a lot about internally and that we talk quite a lot about internally. is getting thought leadership for the web dev community, right? For people who are big in the React scene, for JS developers who are looking for the next big thing, like on a technical level.

That’s still an area that we care a tremendous amount about because that’s naturally where we see atproto having the most to offer to people who are not just coming to it from the microblogging use case, right? And so Dan is a wonderful, wonderful emissary here. Protocolly Atmoseed. I’m gonna try to make that. There you go. Yeah, okay. Yep, that that’s the delayed laugh really says it all there. I don’t know who’s babe the blue ox in this analogy.

Jim Ray: Yeah, wow, that’s babe the Ox, that’s Paul Bunyan. I feel like Paul Bunyan and Johnny Appleseed, those are two different we’re gonna have to fix this up in post. Yeah.

Alex Garnett: They are two different. Yeah, you know, just mix all the Americana together. Yeah, yeah. I love it. You know, appreciate that. Yeah, I don’t think Johnny Appleseed, if he rode around on a big blue ox, that would have cheapened a lot of what he did. He could have just had like a little seed dispenser hanging off the back of the ox. So this doesn’t this doesn’t work at all.

Jim Ray: Yeah. Is there a way we can get John Henry into this? Maybe stir up some AI discourse too?

Alex Garnett: Yeah. That’s what we need.

Jim Ray: Yeah, exactly. Well.

Alex Garnett: bottom line.

Jim Ray: You know, your point about getting kind of the like traditional web devs in into this, I feel like the we’ve really primed the pump there and I’m super excited to see folks. Andy Bell is somebody I think we’ve mentioned on the stream before. He’s recently proto-pilled and so I a lot of folks that I know and have followed for some number of years are really getting into this in a in a variety of ways. I think a lot of folks are coming into it obviously via Bluesky, but a shout out to our friends at standard.site, of course, because I think that’s also getting people interested and having people realize that there’s more to this protocol than just something that you would build a short form social network on.

But as Dan keeps as Dan puts it in one of his many blog posts, it really creates this kind of data layer for the web. And that’s pretty exciting stuff. And I think you know, a lot of folks are getting into it, which is really great.

Alex Garnett: Yeah. It is. The show is super worth a listen. This is shoptalkshow.com once again and I highly recommend it. It’s a masterclass on how to talk about atproto to people who care about JS, but don’t necessarily care about all the Bluesky e-type use cases that a lot of us live and breathe. So.

Jim Ray: Boris is highlighting a new feature on atmosphere.community that Ms. Boba added, aggregating the latest forum posts. So Atmosphere. community continues to be a great resource. We usually mention it at the end of the show because that’s where you can go find all your local events. But I do love that Boris and team are making it kind of an aggregator for all kinds of things across the atmosphere. A few other things I’ve been launching here, so our friends over at mu.social, the kind of front end that the Eurosky team has put together. They’ve been really cooking. They’ve been throwing out features left and right here. A lot of familiar faces on that team. So shout out to the Mu Social team.

But one thing I really liked, they’re really beefing up their news feed. And I feel like newsfeed has become this kind of generic term for any kind of like a reverse chronological feed, but they really do mean it in the sense of like a feed for news specifically. They’ve done a pretty good job of going in and curating some trustworthy news sources and they’re showcasing that as an add-on to you broadly as a way of saying like hey, you know, all this soup that we’re constantly trying to swim in and know what is and isn’t fake. And they’re saying, you know what, we’re gonna find some reputable news sources and then you can go and trust that the news that shows up in this particular feed is gonna be genuine news, which I appreciate.

Alex Garnett: Yeah, I think it just proves that’s one of very many wide open spaces that if you’re maintaining an alternative social app view, like there’s no limit to what you can add on there if you’re Willing to experiment with features and you just want to ship something out of the gate. This is a really good example of just add a news feed tab it also, like a lot of atmospheric applications, directly competes with something that’s closed that we all sort of take for granted that we don’t like as much, which is Apple News, right? My wife and I have an ongoing conversation, which is, oh no, did you subscribe to Apple News again? Because I’ll look over and there’ll just be like some weirdpeople.com headline.

I’ll be like, why are we weird? No, let’s not, we’re not gonna read that. I don’t I don’t want to know what that is. Like and so again, like this is a space that like a lot of people are already playing in. And to be able to incorporate that into the atmosphere, into your social graph, into a social app view, like that’s something you can just ship. And they’ve done a really good job of demonstrating.

Jim Ray: And I appreciate that they aren’t shy about being opinionated about this. I think part of where we kind of got into trouble with previous eras of social networking was sort of treating everything as a reputable news source, which especially when they all kind of come into these newsfeeds where you’ve got your crank conspiracy theories next to you know the New York Times and they all kind of have that the same level of import. And so I appreciate having an opinionated feed there. And you know, that’s obviously been one of the longstanding features of Bluesky specifically, the ability to kind of like craft your own feeds and anybody to create their own feeds. So it’s great to see Mu leaning into that.

Alex Garnett: Yeah. After we bring baseball to Europe, I will bring page six to Mu Social.

Jim Ray: Oh God. All right, a few other launches here. So a friend of the stream here, Brooke, who of course runs pckt.blog. Launched a PDS operator application. And this is really cool because it kind of acts as like a sidecar to your PDS. And so you set that up and you plug it into your PDS. And it gives you a dashboard view into your PDS. And I love the idea of kind of being able to fill in some of the gaps that may not be there certainly with the reference PDS. We’re working hard. And so it was really great to see Brooke throw that together and ship that. So I don’t know if anybody out there is using Brooke’s PDS operator, but recommend checking that out, especially if you’re looking for some more.

Views or ways to manage your PDS.

Alex Garnett: Yeah. And on PDS News, we actually have OTel endpoints landing relatively soon. In the reference PDS, so we’ll be able to ship some sample Grafana dashboards for anybody who’s looking for an out-of-the-box monitoring solution. just trying to figure out how best to incorporate host metrics side by side with the PDS metrics because I think they give context together. That should be coming relatively soon. And then there was some noise recently about how the new account management interface that we shipped doesn’t always represent longer-lived OAuth sessions accurately, and we also have a fix for that cooking relatively soon. So on the topic of the reference PDS, got some improvements coming up the chain that we should be able to announce soon-ish as well.

Jim Ray: Cool. And OTel, of course, is OpenTelemetry for folks who may have never integrated OpenTelemetry or had to use that on your own?

Alex Garnett: Yeah, the Prometheus Grafana Extended Universe, all the monitoring stuff that people have whenever they’re looking at a chart of, you know, it’s green, now it’s red. It’s green, now it’s red. That’s all that general ecosystem.

Jim Ray: Good to know what’s green. Hopefully they’re all green, but when it goes red, you need to know.

Alex Garnett: That’s not good.

Jim Ray: Alex, you were mentioning that you’d you’ve been seeing a lot of post-LocalFirst blog posts circulating. So it seems like LocalFirst just wrapped over in Berlin, which then followed, I guess it was DWebcamp and then LocalFirst and then coming up soon we have the IETF and you said you were noticing some blog posts coming out of the localfirst conference. What was it that caught your eye?

Alex Garnett: Quite a few people have been following up publicly, and I’ve seen some of these blog posts get circulated. So Luke Cannys has a building on atproto blog post. I think he was one of quite a few people coming out of the local first conference who got excited about AppReto and it’s on his radar for the first time. And this is an interesting time to be coming on board into the ecosystem because we’re talking a lot about permissioned data, but there aren’t a lot of permissioned data in Implementations that you can go and look at right now. And I’m realizing that’s leading some people to go, you know, like, -oh, how much is in flux? Like how much is about to change?

Should we be aware of permissioned data and like how much this is going to overhaul how we talk about relays and everything? And I want to make sure that people aren’t too worried about what’s about to ship because it does in a way, you know, create a whole new part of the protocol that has different methods of you know interacting directly with the PDS more often. Not going all the way to a relay in every case because a relay is not going to be aggregating all permissioned data posts and things like that. And I have also been, at the same time as this, working with the team on rebasing the Bluesky SDK on top of Lex.

I think I shared this two weeks ago and the reason we’re doing this is because we’re about to relaunch all of the Bluesky docs and we have a bunch of old SDK patterns in there and we wanted to modernize those at the same time. And as we redo the Bluesky SDK, there’s a few inconsistencies, things we’ve taken for granted, some non-spec behavior that we’re trying to clean up. I know, for example, bringing this back to the PDS conversation. Non-reference PDSs like Tangled try to follow the spec directly when our own SDK client makes some exceptions around when requests should be proxied. through a PDS versus directly to an app view and so on. And we’re improving the client so that people don’t have to second guess the proxying behavior.

And that way, if they want to get strictness, if they want to be able to query a PDS directly, they’re able to do that. Those changes are also along the lines of I think what’ll be changing in some default assumptions around permissioned data, right? It’s always just thinking about, you know, how do I make sure I’m hitting a PDS directly and things like that. Being able to clarify that in a way that a, takes some of the mystery out of it, and B makes clear that these patterns aren’t going to be significantly different. for the everyday developer just figuring out how to talk in the atproto ecosystem, how to communicate across lexicons. That’s educational work that I want to be doing right now.

Just to make sure that people are understanding, you know, like the whole world is not going to change. Like this is going to enable a whole bunch of brand new use cases. This is going to significantly expand the audience and the use cases for the protocol. But it doesn’t mean that the core patterns all of a sudden are going to be worlds apart. And I think how we talk about that new SDK right now directly informs that conversation. About, you know, like, hey, do I have to be worried about permissioned data? Is it going to be like a brand new protocol? And the answer is, you know, like yes and no. It’s still atproto. We.

Jim Ray: we talked last week about damn Daniel Holmgren had shipped the proposal that he’d been he’s been working on. And but in between that time, he did ship what he is saying is perhaps the ultimate or perhaps penultimate of his data diaries. If you haven’t had a chance to read those, they’re fantastic. And one thing that that really helped me understand kind of what’s going on with permissioned data and what makes it a little bit different. One question that I had for Daniel last time he was on the stream. was if we had it to do over with, would we have started with permissioned data and then made something like Bluesky just like a global permission space?

And I think that his latest per his latest data diary actually really clarified why that would not be a good idea. And there’s a there’s a couple of things that that go into that. And so I think it’s worth reading. But a few things that set out for me is one, the data structure is different between the to. And so, you know, that’s a pretty significant load. And they’re doing really quite different things. And the use case that we’re trying to solve with the big world social app. versus the ability to create communities, even very large communities that would scale to millions of people, they are ultimately solving different problems. And so they require some different underlying data structures.

And so I thought that was that was really helpful. And then also just the lack of the relay, which I think is going to be maybe a little bit spicy. And I haven’t seen too much kick-up about that. So maybe some folks in the in the chat have some opinions about kind of the lack of a relay, but you’re really going more to directly to the PDS. So I hadn’t quite fully understood both of those things and so again, that’s why we’re trying to develop all of this stuff in open.

Alex Garnett: Yeah. There will be some interesting follow-on from that, right? Just speaking as a dev rel, right? A lot of what we’ve been doing the past few months, it feels like, is creating ways of making the app view less heavyweight. Being able to rely more on microcosm tools, on upcoming Jetstream V2 improvements, so that way you can do more slicing server-side and you can have network replace, you don’t need to backfill as part of a single query that’s stateless. Like these are all ways of getting a view such that you do not need to bolt everything into the app view. When we talk about permissioned data and being able to cache requests without a relay, a lot of that then necessarily does go back to talking about having to make your apps more heavyweight in some ways, right?

And so this does all get interesting from a dev education point of view. And that’s why you and I are going to be focusing quite a lot starting just a couple of weeks from now on building out a lot of those permissioned data use cases so people know like what’s the same, what’s different, how does it scale. And all that sort of thing.

Jim Ray: Speaking of permissioned data, this is a bit orthogonal, so I don’t necessarily want to lump these together too much, but I think that we’re seeing a fair bit of this. look at permissioned data just based on the proposal and Nick G has had a couple of good write-ups. I think he was posting this from the hospital. All the love to Nick G and hope he’s recovering well. But didn’t stop them from posting. And then Blacksky only Posts, which launched, I think, right as we were starting to stream a couple of weeks ago. These are all things that are kind of permissioned data shape. And they’re often, I know they like Blacksky only Posts, they’re kind of like sidecar records.

And I think Rudy’s talked about you know exploring permissioned data and whether or not it would make sense to kind of move that over. But lots of activity happening, not just in the feedback, but actually seeing some development happening. And that’s really great to see.

Alex Garnett: Yep. I think Gander does a very similar thing for Gander only posts right now. And it just goes to show like you can implement the spec, right? A lot of the early implementers in this community implemented the spec. Like the docs were not the most legible part of atproto ecosystem info for, I would say, more than half of this project’s existence. Right. And we’re very lucky to have motivated implementers who can implement the spec. And I also can’t wait to have docs-driven implementers a little bit later on down the line. Like we always think about, you know, first, second order, who’s gonna be first, who’s your number one ecosystem evangelist, and also making sure that we can again backfill right from there.

Jim Ray: Quick s quick check-in with standard.site. I feel like this is kind of a rigor feature of the program here at this point because they’re continuing to cook leaflet and Offprint, they’ve both added the ability to let you create sort of non-blog pages so that you can really create an entire website using their platforms. So it doesn’t just have to be a blog or a newsletter or something like that. So really great to see. And then the reader apps, they just keep on coming. And so one that I feel like I had seen, it’s I don’t know that it’s necessarily new, but was kind of resurfaced for me was the social wire. So the socialwire.app is a really slick one as well.

And so it’s I really love I think having the combination of both you know, more people, more and more folks coming online and publishing their standard.site records, but also standard.site needs in order for it to really thrive, we need to build this ecosystem and applications on top of that. And so I think the first generation of that are going to be kind of like the Google reader style with RSS reader style applications and then we’ll see where it goes from there.

Alex Garnett: People love the blog like this whole like short form microblogging and long form blogging can and shoot side by side bet has been, I think Easily one of the most exciting bits of ecosystem momentum for the time that we’ve been here. And everything that we’ve been able to facilitate that we’ve seen the community ship has been like up there with the most exciting aspects of protocol development right now. So the more blogging the better. I think you pointed out this morning that CSS tricks is now on standard.site, for example. Yeah. That’s so cool. Like I love that people who care about the web are taking notice and are shipping this stuff.

Jim Ray: I just want to say a quick shout out. I don’t want to spend too much time on this, but a quick shout out to everybody who was super normal about the whole trademark thing. It was this is something I got to work with our crack legal squad on. Love our legal team. They’re the best in the business. We went back and forth a lot on this. Also, shout out to Bryan and Daniel. here on the Atmosphere team for some feedback to make sure that we weren’t stepping in it. But I think I think I feel like I’m very optimistic that that one landed really well. I wrote a kind of a quick fact and one of the things was like, isn’t having a trademark kind of antithetical to this whole open source decentralized protocol thing?

And in my heart of hearts, I kind of feel like it is, but I also know that like this is the world that we live in and we have to operate in that world too. And so we’re really trying to be as good faith about this as we possibly can and really protect the ecosystem. And I was really happy to see the response that we got from folks. As long as you weren’t on a certain website was really was really great. So thanks to everybody for being pretty normal about the whole the whole trademark thing.

Alex Garnett: Yeah, I mean anytime we announce that we’re doing something like purely proactively and defensively, I think there are people who are going to see the defensively part and then get defensive, right? And that’s understandable. Like I have also been very familiar with the last 25 years of tech history, and there’s a lot of reasons to get defensive, but I thought you did a great job of outreach there. I thought, you know, our wonderful lawyers did a very good job of articulating exactly why this is a kind of straightforwardly good thing to have in our back pocket for now. And I am grateful that it was received as such.

Jim Ray: Same. And I know that folks on probably on stream right now are maybe a little bit nervous about this. I will say that for the most part, you’re probably covered by, you know, most of the good faith usage parameters that we have built into the policy. If you don’t feel like, you know, if you just want to make double extra sure, please email us at trademarks@atproto.com and we will help you out with that. We read every email. You know, we usually mention this at the end that you know be sure to check atmosphere.community for your local meetups, but our friends over at Leaflet are once again, they did this last year and they it was it was a resounding success and I think that just the ecosystem was so much smaller even a year ago that they’re doing it again.

So Leaflet is hosting an atproto community Day. It’s going to be in Brooklyn at the Recurse Center. If you’re on the East Coast, especially if you’re up in the New York area, do check that one out. It’s gonna be about a month from now, I think almost exactly a month from now. You know, it’s going to be beyond just a meetup, it’s going to be a full day event where folks are going to be able to come in. I think there’s going to be kind of a hack session. People are going to have presentations and things like that. So kind of a little mini conference.

Alex Garnett: Yeah. The Recurse space is fantastic. It’s a wonderful community for us to be aligned with. I’ll be in town a week prior to that for hope. Unfortunately, I won’t be able to stick around for this event, but really, really, really happy to see atproto getting more involved with Recurse. That warms my heart in several ways. In the meantime, I think Sorry?

Jim Ray: A lot of alignment there for sure.

Alex Garnett: So much alignment. Yeah, like it’s really good. In the meantime, I know that Portland, Montreal, and LA all met in the last week. Love to see that meetup energy continuing. And if you are part of the Boston Meetup community, please at me. Or don’t add me, or don’t email me, or my family. Just kidding, go.

Jim Ray: Boston. I feel like you’re a man divided in so many ways, Alex, but you seem to hold it together. You’re at your heart, you’re an East Coaster who’s also a dedicated to living on the West Coast, it seems. And so just appreciate that energy.

Alex Garnett: I’d love to have the multitudes. I got them. They’re all right here.

Jim Ray: See? A few other things to mention is that this was a really interesting one. The folks at Tangled just they continued to it really approach things from some interesting ways. But I guess about a week ago they put out they were trying to figure out how to build an API and it wasn’t necessarily obvious how to build an API into their app view. In fact, it was going to like tear the app view apart that is also responsible for s serving the tangled website that people need to use to get to their repos and things like that. And so they built this application called Bobbin with a really fantastic write-up. And so that blog post is really great.

And I’ll drop a link there. But then there’s also a an alternative to the GitHub CLI. And you were mentioning that one, Alex. What’s going on with that?

Alex Garnett: Yeah, this was a nice bit of community development that just came across my desk this week. Ali. codes shipped TG, which is this G H C L I style command line tool, but for the tangled API. This is exactly the kind of thing I love to see. I think just last podcast I was talking about how like I was very grateful that Tangled decided to prioritize CICD platform integration and tooling on their end because that’s the kind of thing you really need to replace GitHub in people’s workflows. And exact same thing here, like having direct CLI tooling that can talk to an API is one of those things that I think people take for granted when it’s like, oh, just host your code someplace else, right?

But you want to be able to replace all that CLI function. So that way you can programmatically interact with PRs or anything like that. And so having these tools exist to build out the DevX for a platform like Tangled, super, super important. Love to see it.

Jim Ray: Absolutely. And obviously these things follow from each other. So the you know the idea that this CLI landed, I think, within a week of the API launching is just shows that that motivated developer community. So really love to see that. And then there’s just some an interesting conversation happening in the chat right now. So it sounds like Eli. has made an event for people tuning in remotely to the IETF meeting tomorrow. I don’t know that this episode will be on the podcast. before that happens, but I’ll include a link all the same. So thank you, Eli, for putting that together. And then I guess the last thing that we’ve got on our list to mention is the good folks at Eurosky.

They put together a really very cool portal page that I think tells a great story about the atmosphere because, you know, it’s just portal.eurosky.tech. And it shows all of the different applications that you can use with your Eurosky or your Bluesky or your Tangled, whatever your atmospheric handle might be. And I really love that because it tells, like I said, that story of what the atmosphere is. It’s not just you know, your handle on a social network, but your ape your ability to access this huge world of applications.

Alex Garnett: Yeah. The one page explainer, like the way into the atmosphere, is a concept that we keep circling and the community has done quite a few of these really, really well. And I don’t think anyone’s looking for one entry point to rule them all because that’s not the nature of the network. But I love that people are so determined to just show off all the different experiences you can have on the atmosphere because it’s a story that we love to tell.

Jim Ray: Love working with the folks in this ecosystem, so looking forward to continuing to do it forever.